Curse

Patron_of_the_Wild · Jan 28, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by caballo_oscuro

Come on guys, read the post, the original said he's making a pvp build so while asuran scan is a grweat suggestion, it's fail to suggest it, cos he can't use it... did they ever teach you in school that during a test you need to read the question properly... if this were an exam, all who suggested asuran scan would get 3/10 for attempting the question... moving on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

He was originally going to use it for PvP, but then he realized that you can't use EotN PvE skills in PvP, so this is a PvE build.

Agreed.
Caballo, would YOU pls be so kind to read the OP's post before you suggest others to do so? thx. He didn't state that he wants a PvP-only spike build and actually suggested PvE skills himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Spiking in PvE is generally bad

... because it's bad to take out nasty ele and monk foes in a matter of seconds? That might be your opinion, but I wouldn't consider it a general truth.

JSpayde · Jan 28, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Sorry, I don't know how to post builds but what I use is:

Burning Arrow
Triple Shot
Double Shot
Sloth Hunters
Read The Wind
Asuran Scan

Make sure Marksmanship and Expertise are high as possible. I don't bother with going Wilderness Survival because of the attribute spread (less damage, but prove me wrong people). Also, the 10 energy costs aren't too bad with a zealous bow; scan first, triple, double, burning, then sloth for best results.

And then I bring Pain Inverter and a hard res (if I don't trust my allies to bring their own, which seems like the case more often than not). You can probably go Ebon Vang. Sin and Conjure Flame if you want. I don't like Needling Shot; sure the skill recharges when you time it right but the damage is locked at 30 or so, that and I also tend to over spam the skill after the enemy is down causing me to waste it on another enemy.

And spamming in PvE isn't entirely terrible. I find this build runs nicely with Discord heroes when I'm bored of running the AP build.

Patron_of_the_Wild · Jan 29, 2009, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSpayde

I don't like Needling Shot; sure the skill recharges when you time it right but the damage is locked at 30 or so, that and I also tend to over spam the skill after the enemy is down causing me to waste it on another enemy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patron_of_the_Wild

Influenced by all dmg buffs Needling Shot deals exactly 138 dmg.

The damage that comes from the arrow itself is locked to 27 dmg or something like that, but not the additional damage caused from other skills. It's really fun to shoot Triple Shot on your target and have it follow 1 or 2 Needling Shots. Your target should be dead.

Oh, and if you accidently fire Needling Shot on a target above 50% HP, don't mind it. Needling has a 4 sec recharge.

Coney · Jan 29, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobulation

^ That one is pro

Two 24s preps with 12s recharge? Isn't that a waste of 1 skill slot (PvE skills also used)?

tuna-fish_sushi · Jan 29, 2009, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coney

Two 24s preps with 12s recharge? Isn't that a waste of 1 skill slot (PvE skills also used)?

experts dexterity is a stance now gwguru icons are not updated.

Age · Jan 29, 2009, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Spiking in PvE is generally bad. For PvP, there's:

[build prof=R/W Marksmanship=12+2 Expertise=12+1+1][Burning Arrow][Hunter's Shot][Savage Shot][Distracting Shot][Flail][Lightning Reflexes][Read the Wind][Resurrection Signet][/build]

BA TuretLook familiar.

ac1inferno · Jan 29, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patron_of_the_Wild

... because it's bad to take out nasty ele and monk foes in a matter of seconds? That might be your opinion, but I wouldn't consider it a general truth.

Single target spikes are not effective in PvE.
With a few exceptions, single target spikes (notably by Assassins) are far less effective than AoE attacks or pressure.

Why is this bad?
Let's take Assassins as an example. They run up, do their thing, and boom, their target is dead. Works great in PvP. In PvE, it just doesn't have the same charm. By the time you've run up/shadowstepped/whatever, your heroes can and will have already nuked your target to oblivion, thus rendering you useless. Even if you do get your spike in, the chance is it has a recharge of at LEAST eight seconds, this meaning that after your spike is done, you are useless to your team for that next (at least) eight seconds. In fact, most monsters (especially in HM) have too much health for your spike to even kill them in one chain. This is the same as almost every spiker build.

Now take the example of [[Cry of Pain] spike teams. Great in PvE, yes? However, they do not spike just one target. They spike most or all of the enemies at once! How innovative!

Obviously there are some exceptions, but for the most part, remember that single target spikes in PvE = bad.

What are some alternatives?
Continuing with the example of an Assassin. One of the few good PvE builds for Sins is the MS/DB spam. This build uses a fairly weak lead and off-hand, then uses [[Moebius Strike] to spam [[Death Blossom], an AoE dagger attack. This is effective because it allows you to damage almost an entire mob at once, if used correctly. Another example of a good PvE sin build is the Critscythe, which uses the high chance of critical hits from sins paired with the high damage of scythes to provide amazing DPS and good pressure. This build, since it uses scythes, which can hit three adjacent foes, also uses AoE, as well as pressure, not spiking.

If you notice any damage-oriented Elementalist builds in PvE, they, with very few exceptions, use AoE attacks, rather than strong spikes. This is why elites such as [[Searing Flames] and [[Savannah Heat] are popular, over builds like lightning spikers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

BA TuretLook familiar.

Not too sure what you are trying to say..

Age · Jan 29, 2009, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Not too sure what you are trying to say..

You got it off of PvX works ok but lacks IMS of Natural Stride.

ac1inferno · Jan 29, 2009, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You got it off of PvX works ok but lacks IMS of Natural Stride.

You don't really need IMS unless for Ab or Cm. The build posted is mainly for GvG, but can also be used in Arenas with some variants.

Age · Jan 30, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

You don't really need IMS unless for Ab or Cm. The build posted is mainly for GvG, but can also be used in Arenas with some variants.

Natural Stride is used a lot in GvG and can be used defensive stance.

Patron_of_the_Wild · Jan 30, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Well ac1inferno, you're talking about elite missions, HM areas, HM dungeons and so on and so far I agree with you. There you encounter large mobs and yeah, to damage all at once is way more effective than to take them out one by one. No question. But if that's always the case, I would never leave town without my splinter barrage build. However, there are areas in Guild Wars where you encounter only little groups of 3, 4 or 5 and splinter barrage doesn't prove too useful there.

Vazze · Jan 30, 2009, 03:04 PM // 15:04

No, she is talking about tankspank. Sad, but apparently this is what devs think is good for the game after ursan ...meh. She went off topic by talking about sin and ele, so I just note that even though her examples are not exactly wrong, they are out of context (aoe blossom DPS is usually insignificant, crit scythe has much lower dps against higher armor, ele damage sux vs higher armor) but then again, this is a ranger thread.
I sign this though: nice, you can spike but don't lose (too much) overall DPS.

elk · Jan 30, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Natural Stride is used a lot in GvG and can be used defensive stance.

While true, it's not relative to that particular build. The build stats don't favor an investment into Wilderness. The spike is the BA, Hunters and Savage w/ Read the winds up and under Flail or lighting reflexes (this obviously excludes the Burning and the possibility of the bleeding). You want to maintain the high expertise for cost/output and the marksman for dmg and skill breakpoints.

What are you suggesting be scraficed to add in a different attribute line for a defensive movement buff (considering there's another toon already devoted to flagging)?

elk

Age · Feb 01, 2009, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by elk

While true, it's not relative to that particular build. The build stats don't favor an investment into Wilderness. The spike is the BA, Hunters and Savage w/ Read the winds up and under Flail or lighting reflexes (this obviously excludes the Burning and the possibility of the bleeding). You want to maintain the high expertise for cost/output and the marksman for dmg and skill breakpoints.

What are you suggesting be scraficed to add in a different attribute line for a defensive movement buff (considering there's another toon already devoted to flagging)?

elk

I took out Lighting Reflexess just to see how flail worked.

talisk3 · Feb 01, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Shall I clear this up? This was originally a PvP build but now a PvE, I know single target spiking isn't great but it is needed in the mission Aurora Glade HM when you must kill the runner very quickly.
Thanks for all the responses =)

Spike Stritter · Feb 01, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I took out Lighting Reflexess just to see how flail worked.

LR is good if u have dwarven stab.

MasterSasori · Feb 02, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I took out Lighting Reflexess just to see how flail worked.

Flail>>LR in PvE. No need to even try.